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Conell2000

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley_52


 it seems like an awfully speculative scenario for an attorney to use it to come up with such a precise estimate.

I didn't think we knew yet, for sure, where all the assets are located.  Maybe they're finished with all inventories and are in a position to definitively identify all the creditors, but I've had the impression there was still a lot of digging to do.  I mean, I still haven't seen my name on any list and the amount they owe me would certainly have some impact on the numbers and I know I'm not alone.


It's not precise. Mr. Moore said he is dividing $633,000 (the contents of the vault) by 33 million owed.  = 0.019 aka... my 2 cents

Mr. Bensimon and Mr. Martinec state the amount owed is "more than 15 million".  (I don't think they are including the value of metal owed to customers) but the pot remains the same at 633K.  (value of the metal changes quickly)   633K/15M = .04  still pennies on the dollar 

 Mr. Bensimon indicated there are some fields that have not been pulled down and included in the data that will include more customers.  Some data was in cloud storage and they hadn't paid the storage bill.    


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jkline

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Reply with quote  #17 
Well, everything is going as I perceived.  All we learned is that CM is even more of a cheating mother****** than we guessed. 

Money is gone; all we can hope for is prison for CM, which will be for defrauding Uncle Sam, not us.  

I suspect CM is in the process of divorce.  What school is his daughter going to?  How was tuition paid?  What a farce. 

*Two* criminal lawyers?  Where is that money coming from?  Would like to see all CM's assets frozen.

Where is Nemo?  That great tool said he was going to go and take charge of the meeting.
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mindmelter

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Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conell2000


19.  6-7 million was spent on software development.  




There's not much to show for it.
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tboll

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Posts: 292
Reply with quote  #19 
Well it's good to know that Nucleo only drained away $6M of the missing $30M.  (So that venture wasn't CM's worst.  Frankly I think the $10M sticker price is more aligned to what the Software cost to produce than what they will get for the sale of it.)

Secondly, losing money since 1999 means that from the day they opened shop it was a losing venture.  Wow, and it took him 16 years to admit it?  It seems to me that admitting that the company was never profitable is admitting that it was a Ponzi from day one -- and only existed as long as more assets came in than were drawn out.

Thirdly, my guess is that CM's last few years of pay checks has gone to retaining criminal lawyers.  So if we can clawback those paychecks, maybe he will have to use a public defender instead of a pricey lawyer?
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au

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Reply with quote  #20 
IRA holders, think about this:  Equity Trust has been collecting maintenance fees on our IRA accounts for years and years that were never funded with IRA approved assets.  Of course there's some Equity Trust liability here.  They never did any validation of our assets but continued to take maintenance fees.  Had Equity Trust done proper due-diligence our IRA accounts could not have been opened up and funded in the first place.  Equity Trust is also on the hook here.  -au
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au

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Reply with quote  #21 
"The claim against Corbin Tuma is because "there is a suspicion that he stole from the vault."  

I don't know if anyone happens to remember, but somewhere in this forum was a claim that someone had spoke to CM a while ago and he replied to them something about a vault being broken into?  They didn't know if we was joking or not.  Can anyone find that post here?  Just curious.  -au
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nolastname

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Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #22 
Hi
I am the so called IT Professional who contested the claims at the meeting (actually I am not[tongue]). 
Well, let me put it this way. I think the best way forward to realize the value of the website platform is to use it by BDI in a new avatar, and resurrect the business. This is what was also suggested by somebody who had his IRA based investments in the company. I totally agree. If they could give equity to the creditors and make them shareholders, get the business to run with honesty, may be they could take advantage of the existing platform and realize its value. 

Note, I am talking nothing about making a business, I am only talking about realizing the value of the asset that they are claiming is the only remaining one. Only 2% is to be realized, a 2 cents on a dollar. May be we all could forego it and try being equity holders. 

BUT. IF this website is run in a new avatar by its present proprieters then I do not anticipate any value remaining by selling the patents/platform. Patents likese these are easily flouted, and do not protect against any cloning. And who on earth would buy an existing web platform. For a new startup, they would start new. For an existing big company they would make their own. I do not believe this $10M valuation is anything, EXCEPT, if used by the present company to resurrect this business with honesty and get into business again. I am all for it. 
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tboll

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Posts: 292
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by au
"The claim against Corbin Tuma is because "there is a suspicion that he stole from the vault."  

I don't know if anyone happens to remember, but somewhere in this forum was a claim that someone had spoke to CM a while ago and he replied to them something about a vault being broken into?  They didn't know if we was joking or not.  Can anyone find that post here?  Just curious.  -au


au, LoneStarHog is the one who mentioned a friend saying that CM was preoccupied with a vault breech.  Refer to post #34 in here...
http://forums.bulliondealerdata.com/post/fyi-stored-bullion-nonexistent-7521877?pid=1288091379&highlight=breech#post1288091379
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shooter magaven

Senior Member
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Posts: 138
Reply with quote  #24 
Regarding Nolastname's statement about restructuring and turning a profit.

So best case - all creditors are made whole?

What's the worse case? I lose my 2% along with my 98% already stolen?

Sure ...why not... 2% in my case is not even a house note.
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JG

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Posts: 960
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley_52
Edit....I mean why would there be less to distribute in a chapter 7 than chapter 11?


That part is by design. My understanding is that a Chapter 11 reorganization plan must provide better results than a Chapter 7 liquidation would (unless creditors agree otherwise).

In this case, Bullion Direct seems to be claiming that keeping the website running is critical to selling the patent.

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tboll

Senior Member
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Posts: 292
Reply with quote  #26 
I'm not clear on how/when the shareholders get their money back in this restructure-and-resurrection plan.  Are shareholders going to receive dividend checks from the massive profits generated?  Or is it just a one-time payout once the company finds a buyout partner willing to pay $30-40M for the business?
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JG

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter magaven
On another note, point 13 is cause for serious depression. This is NOT what I wanted to hear. Words connot describe how F&UCKING PISSED I am right now. If I knew I could get to CM right now...


I posted this on another thread, but:

When I get the audio, this is one of the things I am going to listen carefully to.

For example, if Bensimon and Martinec tricked the attorney into thinking there was only $16.9M in liabilities (what it states in Docket 44), his estimate could actually be high. But if the patent has significant value, it could be low. What if all the metal somehow can be recovered? Did he state it with confidence, or as a ballpark number?

If Schedule 4 is "accurate" (meaning the $33M of listed liabilities is correct, not the $16.9M they add up), and the only assets listed as "Unknown" that can be recovered is the patent and it is sold for $10M, then it would seem the lawyer is talking about 20% of the assets going to customers -- which would be a complete farce.

One thing I looked for in the Tulving case was a source showing some bankruptcies as the percentage of the assets that got distributed to customers, but was not able to find a lot.
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JG

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Posts: 960
Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkline
... all we can hope for is prison for CM, which will be for defrauding Uncle Sam, not us.  

I suspect CM is in the process of divorce.  What school is his daughter going to?  How was tuition paid?  What a farce. 

*Two* criminal lawyers?  Where is that money coming from?  Would like to see all CM's assets frozen.


Assuming CM and/or others from Bullion Direct go to jail, I'm quite sure it will be because of defrauding customers. While I understand corporations are required to file tax returns even if they do not owe money (unlike individuals), the signs are pointing to them not having made a profit. It looks like they spent about $2M more each year than they made (some legitimate expenses, some not, but that doesn't really matter -- "I stole bread to pay my telephone bill" isn't an excuse).

Unless his wife was aware of what was going on all these years, this would be very difficult for them to reconcile. And even more if he is gone for a number of years. I heard the tuition was about $20K/year for each of the two kids in private school, not sure about the one in college.

The guy was paying himself $275K/year, so even after taxes (assuming they were paid), he should have had plenty to pay for private school. And the criminal lawyers.

If you want to see his assets frozen, you would need to talk to a lawyer.

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JG

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Posts: 960
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
I'm not clear on how/when the shareholders get their money back in this restructure-and-resurrection plan.  Are shareholders going to receive dividend checks from the massive profits generated?  Or is it just a one-time payout once the company finds a buyout partner willing to pay $30-40M for the business?


That would depend on the reorganization plan. I believe it could go either way, depending on what whoever wrote the plan thought would work best.

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Alabama

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Posts: 47
Reply with quote  #30 
Auburn is a very expensive school.I'm glad we are sparing no expense to educate his kids & keep him in the lifestyle he's accustomed to. /end sarcasm
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