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nobody

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Reply with quote  #61 
Probably not the most helpful message you've posted, but it made me laugh.
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JG

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemo
Interesting when I look through the first posts in this forums, and read guys like LoneStarHog, who were so full of this and this nonsense, and then finally left the forum when the ones skilled in finding truth exposed his garbage for what it was.


Ah, I had forgotten that it was LoneStarHog that I had been discussing the whole COMEX silver delivery thing with.

But to give LoneStarHog credit (either in a good way or bad way, you pick), it turns out that it was his post in the Bullion Direct forums from 2005 that led to Charles (I assume) posting this, that led to the "About Us: Storage & Insurance" page that has "allocated", "not pool", and "not the assets of Bullion Direct" on it.

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nobody

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:


In my personal opinion, as an industry participant since 1989, I think that the scenario they outlined has some validity. It would seem to be in the interest of these large banks to use metal leasing as a way to manipulate the financial markets. They could release the metal into the market without the metal position (their reserve) leaving their books, yet they could then use the proceeds to support other aspects of the financial markets. 



- "bullionmaster"
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tboll

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Reply with quote  #64 
And Hog is the one who mentioned a friend saying that CM was preoccupied with a vault breech.  Refer to post #34 in here (which may have some truth)...
http://forums.bulliondealerdata.com/post/fyi-stored-bullion-nonexistent-7521877?pid=1288091379&highlight=breech#post1288091379
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PM

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley_52
Personally, I think the chances of a reborn BDI becoming successful and generating sufficient profit to make us all whole is about as likely as hell freezing over.  More likely, I think, the lawyers and managers will burn through the remaining value in the company and THEN decide it's hopeless, leaving nothing to be returned to the creditors (aka US).

Would YOU buy gold from BDI?  Aren't most people (potential customers) aware of what happened and, therefore, not likely to put their faith in BDI?  Who's going to run it?  

Frankly, for what we're going to get either way, I'm about to the point of throwing up my hands and just writing it off as another lesson in life.  I should have been more careful.  Rapidly approaching the age of 70, I doubt it makes much difference anyway.

But still.....I vote for chapter 7 NOW.



Yes I would buy from BDI again, I really liked the Nucleo Exchange where one could buy or sell just like a brokerage with stocks. Bid and Ask. I certainly WILL NOT ever let anyone store it for me again though, I will take physical possession after every purchase.
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tboll

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Reply with quote  #66 
PM, just a thought, but what happens if someone lists their gold for a price on nucleo, gets a buyer, and then the spot price jets up and they decide not to send in the gold?  In the Old BD, it didn't matter, because almost all the metal was virtual and whether BD had the metal or not they could go ahead and collect the money (and delay delivery forever).  In your New Nucleo, if someone doesn't send in their gold, will you just refund the money back to the buyer and say sorry the seller didn't follow through?  Will you go after the seller who backs out with a lawsuit?  Sounds like a tough business unless you have the metal in hand before you sell it (or broker a sale).  And then you are back to the storage problem -- people will be spooked about sending in metal first and then listing it.  Not saying that anything like this could really happen, but if it does it happen at any frequency it could hurt the reputation of the exchange.
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PM

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
PM, just a thought, but what happens if someone lists their gold for a price on nucleo, gets a buyer, and then the spot price jets up and they decide not to send in the gold?  In the Old BD, it didn't matter, because almost all the metal was virtual and whether BD had the metal or not they could go ahead and collect the money (and delay delivery forever).  In your New Nucleo, if someone doesn't send in their gold, will you just refund the money back to the buyer and say sorry the seller didn't follow through?  Will you go after the seller who backs out with a lawsuit?  Sounds like a tough business unless you have the metal in hand before you sell it (or broker a sale).  And then you are back to the storage problem -- people will be spooked about sending in metal first and then listing it.  Not saying that anything like this could really happen, but if it does it happen at any frequency it could hurt the reputation of the exchange.

What was the policy of BD?
You didn't have to send in any metal first before you could sell it.
I think something could be set up... i.e.  Have a credit card on file and if you fail to send in the metal you get to pay a A$$hole Fee of lots of $$      [crazy]


Same for someone that sends in a check that's not good.

Have the ToS state that you will be charged XXX amount of dollars for failure to comply.
Vee Haf Vays to make you comply!!
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PM

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemo
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
<snip>

Yes I would buy from BDI again, I really liked the Nucleo Exchange where one could buy or sell just like a brokerage with stocks. Bid and Ask. I certainly WILL NOT ever let anyone store it for me again though, I will take physical possession after every purchase.


Isn't there a problem now with trusting a BD-clone enough to sell any bullion to them?  Bullion goes in one door, out the other, and no check to the seller for it.  Whoops, our employee just stole it, and our awesome Lloyd's insurance policy doesn't cover employee theft.   Yeah, and we won't report that employee theft to the police, either.   hmmmm...

Loss prevention and security must not have been very important at BD.
Theft is problematic for sure.
When you send in metal for sale don't you insure the package?
If they claim they didn't receive it you collect on the insurance.
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PM

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemo
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
<snip>
What was the policy of BD?
You didn't have to send in any metal first before you could sell it.
I think something could be set up... i.e.  Have a credit card on file and if you fail to send in the metal you get to pay a A$$hole Fee of lots of $$      [crazy]


I believe the BD policy was you had to send the metal to them within 7 days of selling it on Nucleo.  Maybe you would have to do some kind of third-party escrow?  Oh, but then there was a third-party, IDS, and BD was able to instruct them to send the bullion straight to the customers without paying for it.  hmmmm

Maybe there is just too much temptation with all that Gold lying around, like human beings cannot help themselves around mass quantities of it, like they just "pop a screw", go insane with "gold fever" because it is their genetic make-up to do so?[crazy]
Something like on the way Paypal works.
Security cameras?
Armed Guard?
Shoot on sight of theft?
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nobody

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Posts: 360
Reply with quote  #70 
How much will that LP eat into your margins?
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tboll

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Posts: 292
Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
PM, just a thought, but what happens if someone lists their gold for a price on nucleo, gets a buyer, and then the spot price jets up and they decide not to send in the gold?  In the Old BD, it didn't matter, because almost all the metal was virtual and whether BD had the metal or not they could go ahead and collect the money (and delay delivery forever).  In your New Nucleo, if someone doesn't send in their gold, will you just refund the money back to the buyer and say sorry the seller didn't follow through?  Will you go after the seller who backs out with a lawsuit?  Sounds like a tough business unless you have the metal in hand before you sell it (or broker a sale).  And then you are back to the storage problem -- people will be spooked about sending in metal first and then listing it.  Not saying that anything like this could really happen, but if it does it happen at any frequency it could hurt the reputation of the exchange.

What was the policy of BD?
You didn't have to send in any metal first before you could sell it.
I think something could be set up... i.e.  Have a credit card on file and if you fail to send in the metal you get to pay a A$$hole Fee of lots of $$      [crazy]


Same for someone that sends in a check that's not good.

Have the ToS state that you will be charged XXX amount of dollars for failure to comply.
Vee Haf Vays to make you comply!!


There were a lot of things I would do with BD that I won't be doing in the future.  Giving a dealer my credit card number for future use is one of the things I won't be doing.  Sending in my gold without getting some sort of collateral, is another thing I would now really worry about.  Trusting dealer to hold my gold until it sells, is another thing I wouldn't do.  Maybe people like me are just not good candidates to be future  the N&I Nucleo customers. [frown]
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tboll

Senior Member
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Posts: 292
Reply with quote  #72 
PS:  And leaving a big cash balance to act as a deposit for gold transactions is another thing I won't be doing.
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PM

Member
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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody
How much will that LP eat into your margins?
How much will theft eat into your margins?
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nobody

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 360
Reply with quote  #74 
Presumably the amount of insurance + deductable*#of events.

DG estimates that cost to be around .59%/year for a small time investor, I'd suggest net/net the actual cost could be lower than that, at the scale of DG - but at the scale of BD?

EDIT: Clearly, I'm misremembering or crossing facts - DG seems to be 1.25% ; Citadel is lower (.55%), but apmex afilliated, and CNT starts at .67%.  I'll leave my original typo above.
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PM

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
PM, just a thought, but what happens if someone lists their gold for a price on nucleo, gets a buyer, and then the spot price jets up and they decide not to send in the gold?  In the Old BD, it didn't matter, because almost all the metal was virtual and whether BD had the metal or not they could go ahead and collect the money (and delay delivery forever).  In your New Nucleo, if someone doesn't send in their gold, will you just refund the money back to the buyer and say sorry the seller didn't follow through?  Will you go after the seller who backs out with a lawsuit?  Sounds like a tough business unless you have the metal in hand before you sell it (or broker a sale).  And then you are back to the storage problem -- people will be spooked about sending in metal first and then listing it.  Not saying that anything like this could really happen, but if it does it happen at any frequency it could hurt the reputation of the exchange.

What was the policy of BD?
You didn't have to send in any metal first before you could sell it.
I think something could be set up... i.e.  Have a credit card on file and if you fail to send in the metal you get to pay a A$$hole Fee of lots of $$      [crazy]


Same for someone that sends in a check that's not good.

Have the ToS state that you will be charged XXX amount of dollars for failure to comply.
Vee Haf Vays to make you comply!!


There were a lot of things I would do with BD that I won't be doing in the future.  Giving a dealer my credit card number for future use is one of the things I won't be doing.  Sending in my gold without getting some sort of collateral, is another thing I would now really worry about.  Trusting dealer to hold my gold until it sells, is another thing I wouldn't do.  Maybe people like me are just not good candidates to be future  the N&I Nucleo customers. [frown]
You better find a coin shop close by to do all your transactions then.
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