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bull123

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Reply with quote  #1 
Does anyone know the exact status of Hannes Tulving?

Jail Time?

Re-starting his bullion business?

Selling cars?

at the end of the day it seems he took orders knowing they would never be filled

IMHO
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JG

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
Does anyone know the exact status of Hannes Tulving? ...
at the end of the day it seems he took orders knowing they would never be filled


He plead guilty to 1 count of wire fraud, basically for taking orders that he knew could not be fulfilled within the timeframe specified. As far as I know, nothing was said in the criminal charges that he knew they would never be filled, just that they would not be fulfilled as promised (I'm not trying to say what he knew, just what was in the charges).

As for the status, he plead guilty under a plea agreement, and sentencing should be in about 6-12 months. The plea agreement is not a public document, so we would have to wait to see for sure (but if I were in his shoes, I could not see signing a plea agreement unless it seemed reasonable to me given what I had done).

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bull123

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Reply with quote  #3 
think about it ... if you take orders that you know can't be filled ($15-20 million)

what is the difference between that ...

and breaking into 20 houses and stealing $1 million of stuff from each?

white collar crime is treated totally different than "thugs who steal things in the middle of the night"

and no, I am not black or an illegal alien ... but it is ironic ... and it does make you wonder ...
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JG

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
think about it ... if you take orders that you know can't be filled ($15-20 million)

what is the difference between that ...

and breaking into 20 houses and stealing $1 million of stuff from each?


Because a lot of people think that if you have assets on the books worth $18M (wholesale), and owe customers $17M worth of goods, taking an order shouldn't get you sent to jail -- while those same people would likely be OK sending the person stealing $1M from 20 people to be worthy of jailtime.

Whether those assets were once were $18M will likely never be known. Whether they are now worth $5M or $20M will be found out at some point over the next few years.

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bull123

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Reply with quote  #5 
so if you have assets ... and you don't ship orders ... the damage is mitigated?

the assets (his graded coins he had stashed away), should have nothing to do with me calling Tulving and wanting some Silver Eagles ... sending him money ... and getting nothing

white collar crime (for some reason) ... is now considered "cool"

it's sad ... especially considering how hard it is to earn that buck to send to Mr. Tulving

i vote life in prison

the end result will be slap on the wrist

just my two cents ... what do i know ... =)
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JG

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
so if you have assets ... and you don't ship orders ... the damage is mitigated?


If Dan Bensimon tomorrow said "Oops! I forgot to check the other vault. It has $34M of metal in it." (or "we just got an appraisal for the patent from a reputable company for $34M"), would you not feel a bit better even if you are owed metal/money from a catalog order?

Yes, someone with a catalog order still had to deal with that feeling when they found out their money was probably gone, plus the headaches for keeping up with what is going on and dealing with the bankruptcy. I knew of some people who had ordered from Tulving and *did* get their metal after several months, who sounded like it hit them emotionally more than most people who are going through the bankruptcy.

But I think damage would be very much mitigated if there were assets backing up what was owed.

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bull123

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Reply with quote  #7 
well, there are no assets ...

the money seems to be gone ... people didn't get their stuff

and now it's time for the orange jumpsuit (in a sane world)

but of course, you are right in that they will get off with a light slap on the wrist

2015 ... u have to love it ... just sayin[smile]
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JG

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
but of course, you are right in that they will get off with a light slap on the wrist


If they had assets, and hadn't stolen metal/money, I think a light slap on the wrist might be possible. But given the circumstances, I find that hard to imagine.

From what I saw of bullion dealers that went belly up, a lot got away with it, and a handful of comparatively innocent people did end up in jail. It isn't easy to predict what will happen.

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