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bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #1 
I can make this very simple for you

U is screwed ...

sorry about your loss ... it could happen to anyone ...

honest people tend to be trusting

crooks tend to be crooked ...

sad what this country has become ...
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bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #2 
A company that took 4-9 months to ship and then poof ... doesn't ship at all

has zero good will ...
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JG

Administrator
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Posts: 960
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
A company that took 4-9 months to ship and then poof ... doesn't ship at all

has zero good will ...


They appear to have shut down the bullion side of their operations. They do a lot of business with custom minting and other related business. This is not Bullion Direct, a one trick pony.

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Crescent248

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Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #4 
Seems to me that the Trustees should sell the rest of the business to pay the creditors.  Doesn't seem right that they can close down their bullion operations, screw their customers who paid for bullion that was never shipped, and then just continue on with their non-bullion business.
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Boss

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Posts: 19
Reply with quote  #5 
That the whole thing may be liquidated is quite possible - but don't think that the creditors
will get much out of it.

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JG

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescent248
Seems to me that the Trustees should sell the rest of the business to pay the creditors.  Doesn't seem right that they can close down their bullion operations, screw their customers who paid for bullion that was never shipped, and then just continue on with their non-bullion business.


It's important to remember there are some misconceptions about bankruptcy.

The #1 seems to be that bankruptcy is a "get out of jail free" card. In other words, that you can owe tons of money and just get away with it. Bankruptcy is designed to let those that honestly get into more debt than they can handle find a way out. But it is not intended in any way to allow people to get away with criminal activity (I'm not saying that is the case here, but the FBI is investigating, and if any of the storage metal isn't there, there almost certainly was criminal activity involved somewhere). People often go to jail in bankruptcies (in fact, the Trustee is required by law to report suspected criminal activity).

#2 is that Chapter 11 bankruptcy allows companies to discharge their debt (so they no longer owe it) and continue operations as before, as they see fit. There are a number of safeguards. For example, the creditors' committee can file a motion to convert it to Chapter 7 (liquidation, where everything just gets sold). And the reorganization plan needs to be approved before any debt can be discharged.

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kkelseven

Junior Member
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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescent248
Seems to me that the Trustees should sell the rest of the business to pay the creditors.  Doesn't seem right that they can close down their bullion operations, screw their customers who paid for bullion that was never shipped, and then just continue on with their non-bullion business.
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kkelseven

Junior Member
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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #8 
Just to be more"Technically Correct" :
I am in Texas, not Washington.
I was not sold a large amount of Bullion that was never Shipped.
I was Sold a large amount of Bullion that
NEVER EXISTED.
I know this because I asked the Salesperson, Robin, on the day that I cancelled my order.
On 3/01/2016 3 months and Twenty one days after receiving a cashier's check ( Good Funds) I asked " have you purchased my Bullion?" answer "no". I then said " cancel and refund". I was told "we don't have your money. As you can see, irrefutable
" WIRE FRAUD" across State Lines.
You cannot sell what you do not have and keep the money. To do so across State lines makes it Federal. As an ongoing Criminal Enterprise makes it Racketeering. It may be that the FBI Finds an interest here perhaps under a RICO Statute. All this being "Enabled" by the Washington state Attorney General.
Recent 9/11 (Saudi Arabia) Legislation may provide the legal pathway to Hold the State Liable.
If that happens (God Willing); J.G. will likely be the First to know .
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bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #9 
I think it's possible Ross gets 30-45 years in prison

this one seems like it has really hit a nerve ...

what a mess ... Washington state should have shut this thing down back in 2008
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Finn

Junior Member
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Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #10 
Ross playing the "manufacture card" has always helped clients ((as well as the ST of WA)) excuse the ridiculous lead time.
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bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #11 
JG ... it's obviously going to be #2 ...

and it won't be a sticky situation ... The courts will see to that.

Let's say there is $1 million left of the 8 million ...

after the lawyers and the courts and the experts and all the other B.S. is done ...

there might be $1.00 left over ... (if that)

the system has a way of making the complex simple as it evaporates the greenbacks into thin air

in my humble opinion of course ...
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oldAG

Member
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Posts: 59
Reply with quote  #12 
Listening to Hansen talk about the inventory value at the Texas operation being I believe he said $2.3 million and Calvert wants a quick cash infusion by selling it for $600K.

What about the value of everything else in that plant instead of just trying to make sure you have enough income to fund whatever projects you want to charge NWTM for over the next several months.

Like the expensive fight over ownership of Hansen's other company that Calvert wants to conduct. He may be right and he may be wrong, but whatever it is, it's going to come out of the funds available to pay back the investors.

And if he's wrong, that's a total loss to the investors and it's still money in his pocket, win or lose.

Rather Hansen should end up in jail or not, I just don't trust these lawyers that like to rack up the hours and don't give a damn about the people paying for it.

For Calvert to say the investors are likely to only receive less than 10% of the money owed when he is acknowledging that his assessment of the companies value is far from complete, is almost criminal itself.

listening to Hansen rattle off number of potential value of things left and right off the top of his head amounted to something that would surely provide everyone a return closer to 50% or more let alone 10% or less.

It's obvious there is some serious bad blood between Hansen and Calvert, but it sure shouldn't have an impact on the investors getting the most money they can back out of this.

At least there is a buffer and that is the bankruptcy judge that  can put an end to anything he/she believes the trustee is doing wrong or doesn't agree with.
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Liberty Leaf

Junior Member
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Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #13 
What is it when the govt , thru its court system, determines the winners and losers,,, when a business is run into the ground by piss poor management and its customers are forced out of business ?  The court decides that the improperly run business can continue and the well run business must fail because of the court sanctioned "customer bail out"  ohhh yeahhh Thats SOCIALISM BABY, and its NOT FOR ME
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kkelseven

Junior Member
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Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #14 
JG Howdy !
Much thanks for your time and guidance re: paper proof of Claim filing. Did that.
BTW : I was able to pull up the Trustee's "Contempt filing" june, 28 on your ag.com site... again thanks.
I did notice that the drama in that filing is outrageous. Yet, There is no request for a restraining order; so there's nothing to deter Hansen from continuing his criminal conduct.
Also noted that the Court appears to be sitting on this for 6 weeks now.
In final, there does appear to be an additional "legal" bill coming in exchange for filing for contempt and then next month what ..... another bill for another contempt filing ? Contempt is like breakfast cereal for that cockroach. He should be jailed and (perhaps) bonded out under a restraining order that guarantees PRISON the next time he sneezes. You know..... There was a time long ago we would get our pitchforks and burn his ass with branding irons. Hansen that is; not the trustee. Imagine our lives if that pinworm had never been born.
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oldAG

Member
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Posts: 59
Reply with quote  #15 
"It's obvious there is some serious bad blood between Hansen and Calvert, but it sure shouldn't have an impact on the investors getting the most money they can back out of this.

At least there is a buffer and that is the bankruptcy judge that  can put an end to anything he/she believes the trustee is doing wrong or doesn't agree with."
 


I haven't followed this at the court level, just the documents posted by Josh, however if the trustee is correct in his accusations, then I would think the Bankruptcy judge would have acted long before this, if not then maybe the judge isn't buying the trustees argument about who should have control over that company and it's assets which are not part of the bankruptcy. However the trustee seems to feel he has a right to confiscate what he wants now and worry about it later in a court battle for control of that company and believes Hansen and his partner have no rights to anything because he is working for the government and he has total power over everything. You may be correct about Hansen belonging in Jail, but until that Trustee actually does his job and accounts for everything at NWTM instead of worrying about how much power he can obtain instead, I think he is the one doing the creditors wrong in this case. His function is to figure out how much NWTM is worth and how to capture the most return for the creditors. He's been on the job for four months now and I still haven't heard anything about how much inventory was actually accounted for in those buildings or even a beginning valuation effort as to what NWTM is worth selling everything off. The only thing I've heard for certain is he plans on spending a fortune of whatever funds are available trying to fight for control of that other company which could be a win for the creditors or a major financial loss for them if he is not successful. A win/win for the trustee and a maybe for everyone else. The whole creditors meeting was a joke spending all that time grilling Hansen over the things the trustee should have been accounting for and when it was his turn to provide the real meat and potato's, he had nothing and that's why they put him on last I'm sure. His assistant did a great job of stalling all afternoon so the Trustee wouldn't have time to be grilled himself. If anyone should be found in contempt of court it should be that trustee for not doing his job. Telling the creditors they are probably going to receive less than 10% of their money when he hadn't even finished a complete inventory or was not willing to share his results, let alone start to evaluate the millions of pieces of inventory owned by NWTM located all over the world. There are trustees and then there are lawyers that act like trustees and I'm afraid this guy is of the lawyer wanting to pass for a trustee. The Trustees in the Other two major dealer bankruptcy's didn't seem to have a problem counting the inventory that was left behind and spent a great deal of time unwinding years worth of records to figure out what in the hell happened. I'm still waiting to hear what this guy has found out regarding the most basic information that everyone needs to hear. How much inventory was accounted for and what is the valuation of the rest of NWTM, then he can say how much of a loss everyone is facing. If Hansen needs to be strung up by his nuts, then so be it, but I really think the prosecutor needs to do his homework first before presenting his case.
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