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kkelseven

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Reply with quote  #16 
Perhaps I did misread the Trustee's Motion to return stored bullion filed at the end of June. I thought it showed about10% of what is supposed to be there might be returned. I do take your point that some deep drilling into the evidence is definitely called for and some explanation as to the purpose of billing for contempt motions vs a restraining order under SEVERE "no recourse" penalties. This in consideration of the Drama spelled out in the Contempt Motion.
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oldAG

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Reply with quote  #17 
I just spent hours reading court documents leading up to Friday's hearing 8/5/16 that hasn't been posted yet.

All the He said/She said and they said sure takes on a different picture depending on who your hearing it from.

What I'd like to know is what this trustee has been doing when he's been out of the office for weeks at a time?

Sounds like the Judge has a serious problem on his hands when it comes to deciding who owns what when it comes to this up for grabs Medallic company.
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oldAG

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Reply with quote  #18 
Well it doesn't look like this Judge is rolling over for the trustee on much of anything right now.

Gave back the Attorney fee's to the girl friend that the trustee demanded to keep.

dismissed all of the charges against Hansen for violating the court order except one and the trustee has to re-submit new documents for that one remaining claim and it was minor compared to all the others.

Then the Trustee posted a profit in May, but didn't disclose the fact he has confiscated all of the company profits, equipment and inventory belonging to Medallic as if it was not in dispute.

I did notice he posted legal fees for the months of April and May totaling $685K and growing. I can't imagine what the costs will be for the legal fight he plans to wage for control of Medallic.

Not to mention how much of these profits he is posting now he may have to start giving up to the owners of Medallic even before that fight has taken place.

I'm still waiting for the trustee to post how much inventory was actually found and what the value of NWTM is in total if sold off versus not telling anyone anything and assuming it has no real value and it's better for him to just keep running the show as he's now doing with his plans on winning control of Medallic for a better deal to sell next year.

One has to wonder just how many millions in legal expenses he has in mind to run up over the next year, which "is" coming out of everyone else's pocket I'm sure but his own.

I don't trust lawyers and especially this guy!!!!

He's hiding the most basic facts and doesn't think anyone is paying attention.

Just think about how much money might be left for the creditors a year from now if he loses his fight for control of Medallic and has to payback all the fees they demand they are due right now along with all the inventory he has been selling that they claim belongs to them, not to mention all those attorney fees.

I'm not saying he's wrong, but if he is, it's going to be a much greater disaster for the creditors and without any information as to what the actual value of NWTM is today, how can anyone make any kind of determination as to which way the company should proceed. Sell or try and salvage parts of it.

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kkelseven

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Reply with quote  #19 
I just reviewed the most recent Trustee report for January operations..... Looks like "Bulls**##@!!!
to me.
I am going to " HAVE TO " agree with 'Old AG'.
The entire attempt at running this Company, the reorganizing effort, by the Trustee is a "Certified" Cluster F#*k. We ARE being Screwed Blue by Vultures. They appear to be charging us $100 for every "one penny" that they expect to return to us.
The money that they are "Savaging" out of that company " IS " the money that we sent in.
In the January operations Report (among other things) I believe I saw 5 different phone companies being payed over $10,000 for January ... WTF !!??
AT&T IS THE MOST Expensive phone company in America. What idiotic Manager spends money that way ?... out of a company that is trying to reorganize ?
I'm so angry I could Spit. Just look at the INSURANCE BILLS.
I Suspect that NONE OF THE EXPENSES were Pre-Vetted.
This Company Bankruptcy started in a $55 mil. Hole. Adding up everything that's been spent Trusteeing plus what's been sold plus payed out to employee Thievery and Thieves, plus phone companies, gas companies, water companies, trash companies, and on and on and on. They should have been at the back of the line and our money refunded to a maximum percentage. I would have leveraged my refund ( whatever it was) and by so doing increased it to more than 50% of my original Money Order within 10 years. With that, plus throw Hanson, his mob, and wife into prison (forever); I would move on with my life. Instead I see Vultures "Raping" the Carcass of it's Marrow and Bone while handing detritus out to anyone "BUT" Us. The Trustee is spending money like it was his... It's NOT... Its ours. It's the money that We Sent in.
The employees have unemployment insurance. The vendors have a write off loss and/or business loss insurance. The landlords still have their real estate and can re-rent ( it's not as if their buildings never sat empty before), the taxes lost are absorbed by the taxing entities ( it's not as if they don't already have properties that are not producing taxes as I write this). Insurance companies don't need it (it's not as if they are Claim Burdened by NWTM).
THE ONLY Real Losers in this Robbery is Us.
The Trustee should get his cash (a reasonable amount) from the State (via the AG's Office) in exchange we would agree NOT to Sue their Asses for failing in their Duty to Police this Predator.
I believe that the State of Texas has a Victims of Crime Fund (presumably for Crimes committed in Texas). I believe that may speak to a certain Spirit within our Laws. Seattle appears to resemble a Criminal Enterprise. I will never shop in, travel in or speak well of Seattle (or the State of Washington) ever again. If their Volcanoes blow, I will not volunteer to go there with the Red Cross; I will send no assistance. If it falls into the Ocean I shall not weep. My disgust with those who Operate that State has drained away my compassion. I will take no Glee in the suffering that God may bring to the Criminals there. I will simply focus my compassion, energy and attention onto those who deserve and appreciate all that I have to share.
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oldAG

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Reply with quote  #20 
Well it looks as though the Trustee has just about run through everything NWTM has had to offer and it's down to the value of the shell that is left, minus debts that they are running up.

All the Silver and Gold that belonged to individuals in those vaults that "couldn't be specifically identified to an owner" was used to help finance this past years adventure and very costly legal fees, not to mention any Gold an Silver that happened to belong to the company and not individuals. Not to mention the value of the properties sold to help fund this "project" and what happened to all the material across the globe that was part of the entire operation and it's value, was it just tossed aside as if it would never ne of any value to anyone? Of course the Trustee had no intention of trying to find a buyer for NWTM as a manufacturing operation of retail Silver products, his only interest was in his plan to keep things going for another year and then make a much larger profit for the creditors, ummmm...

NWTM manufacturing didn't have to come back as NWTM, it's a minting operation that could be used to produce any products for anyone. Some of it's left, but how much and at what value in it's current form.

That's a major expense to start up an operation like that and it appears to be gone and what about their customer list and it's value. Of course no one wants to be solicited by NWTM, but your name and number is of value to any dealer. Oh that's right we are still being solicited by NWTM in it's current form for products most of us probably have no interest and even if we do it would only be for individual pieces for the most part.

It would only provide a tiny fraction of pleasure if the judge would tell the lawyers in October that they are not getting any more legal fees that they are billing  for and they need to pay some of it back as they have failed in their duties and over billed for services that were excessive.

I listened to that original creditors meeting I believe maybe three times with Ross and the trustee and couldn't believe what I had heard. The screwing was apparently set up before that meeting even took place and you could just watch it unfold week after week, month after month as it has taken place.

Not only hasn't Hansen been charged with anything, but the owner of Bullion Direct that went belly up about nine months before NWTM is still running loose and that was over two years ago. Hell Tulving will be out of prison before these guys go to trial if ever.

I have to take that back, Tulving took 23 months to sentencing and another two months to actually arrive in prison to begin a 30 month federal sentence on April 21st, 2016.

Bullion Direct is in their 27th month and no charges have been filed as yet that we are aware of, but different case and different potential charges "if any", IRA problems though, stealing money from one business to fund another might not fly, but what do I know.

Different states, different agencies and different federal prosecutors involved if any.

Considering the time frames these people are taking and if they are consistent, NWTM won't see any charges until sometime late in 2018.

What charges can he be facing that might be different that the other two, possibly stealing company metal and or false testimony regarding his financial status and then coming up with hundreds of thousands in Metal a few months later. Who knows..

But the one common theme that none of them seems to be charged with is stealing their customers money, outright theft is one thing, terrible decisions with our money is another. 
 
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JG

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldAG
What charges can he be facing that might be different that the other two, possibly stealing company metal ...


I think the big thing here is the $7M or so of stored metal that is missing. I cannot see any explanation other than it being lost or stolen. This metal was stored under contracts that required, for instance, insurance. And it was clear that the metal was the property of the owners.

I would assume that if there was any chance that this metal was truly lost (e.g. accidentally shipped to the wrong customers), this information would have been offered up very quickly. I am sure that the Trustee would be obligated to disclose this. And obviously if there had been an insurance policy, that would have shown up and been disclosed. Therefore it seems pretty obvious that fraud occurred here, and almost certainly theft. All the signs point to the company "borrowing" the metal to stay afloat.

There are also other issues, such as the blatant violations of the AG's consent decree (but the obvious defense for that would be "Hey, the AG was well aware that we were violating the consent decree, and chose not to even ask us to stop").

That said, there are a couple of issues. First, there is often a difference between what appears obvious and what the legal system sees (e.g. cases where people get off due to technicalities). And the more important question is that even if can be proven that NWTM committed fraud, which individual(s) were responsible? Again, it may seem obvious, but things are not always as they seem.

It is also important to remember that the investigative agency for Tulving (Secret Service) had time to prepare (they were ready for a raid days after the company shut down, thinking incorrectly that a raid would have no importance because the company had shut down). While I see evidence strongly suggesting that the AG (and possibly a more potent federal agency) started an investigation in mid-February, 2016, there wasn't really time to get far before NWTM filed for bankruptcy. And this is a much more complex case than Tulving, which could add to the time necessary to make a case.

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oldAG

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Reply with quote  #22 
Was there actually $7 million missing after everything was totaled that could be accounted for including all the metal that the Trustee couldn't or wouldn't identify as belonging to someone because the quantities didn't match up perfectly in the right boxes.

Maybe you actually saw a true accounting of all the metal that was counted in those vaults, I don't remember seeing a total, just the Trustee dragging his feet.

I'm not trying to say there isn't or wasn't metal missing out of the vaults, I just think the trustee did his best to eliminate all the metal he could from dedicated metal belonging to members so he could use it to run the company. (the rest of the way in the ground)

As far as the stored metal and insurance, I never knew they stored metal for customers, not that I ever wanted them to store any of mine. However when Bullion direct went belly up I did a search of the largest online dealers to see who else was offering storage of customers metal and NWTM was not one of them which was almost a year before they filed. I don't know when they stopped offering that service or when they stopped insuring their customers metal, but they were not advertising they stored customer metal by the time Bullion Direct went under. What difference that would make if any, I have no idea, I know Bullion Direct is trying to use that as an excuse for his re-directing of his customers metal and funds, so to speak.

Tulving himself didn't go to prison for theft of any customer funds or metal if I'm not mistaken, it was something to do with bogus charges that could apply to hundreds if not thousands of companies from coast to coast today in a plea deal. Maybe I'm wrong.

But looking at some of the brokers that went belly up and screwed customers out of their metal, is there any difference. It was all accounted for on the books but the only ones that were able to keep their metal were those that had records with dedicated serial numbers.

Just too many loop holes for these financial guys to mishandle investor money and get away with it and not go to jail.

In Bullion Directs case he was definitely short the metal in no uncertain terms, compared to what was suppose to be in his vaults for his customers. Was the metal in NWTM vaults short metal to account for the customers stored value of metal?

Sloppy record keeping as to where it is, is one thing, but was it actually missing, stolen or some other underhanded game allowed to be played.

I'm still looking at how Hansen is going to explain where all that metal came from after they stated they were broke or had very little asset, which was probably made under oath.

All this fighting for Medallic Art and you have to wonder if Hansen doesn't see that writing on the wall, it's a failure in it's present form and will go for a steal if he just waits for a fire sale. To be purchased by friends on his behalf I'm sure....

What a fiasco that dealers can get away with this crap and it only goes as a great warning to all investors to never, ever store your metal with any dealer no matter how big they are or how much you trust them.

If you feel the need to store your bullion with a Storage facility, make arrangement with them yourself and ship the metal to and from them or better yet store it with a local facility if you have one.

Safe deposit boxes are also an alternative and no one knows how much or what you have inside for any purpose, any purpose, any taxing purpose.....

Probably as safe as burying under your basement concrete slab, but easier to access, but not as cheap for long term storage.
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JG

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldAG
Was there actually $7 million missing after everything was totaled that could be accounted for including all the metal that the Trustee couldn't or wouldn't identify as belonging to someone because the quantities didn't match up perfectly in the right boxes.


The creditor list shows $8,268,909 worth of metal stored for about 100 customers. The March financial statement shows $932K returned to customers ("the amount of inventory that existed as of
April 11, 2016, when the trustee took over that has been or will be returned to customers who own the inventory."). That leaves $7,337,000 or so of presumably stolen metal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldAG
Tulving himself didn't go to prison for theft of any customer funds or metal if I'm not mistaken, it was something to do with bogus charges that could apply to hundreds if not thousands of companies from coast to coast today in a plea deal. Maybe I'm wrong.


He agreed to plead guilty to 1 count of wire fraud. The fraud he was charged with was basically taking orders that he knew could not be fulfilled in time. *Hopefully* under *normal* circumstances nobody would ever go to prison for that alone (e.g. if I'm taking 10 days to ship orders, and my website says 1 week, should I go to prison?). Everyone in the courtroom was certainly aware that it was really because of the $17M or so of unfulfilled orders.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldAG
... it only goes as a great warning to all investors to never, ever store your metal with any dealer no matter how big they are or how much you trust them.

If you feel the need to store your bullion with a Storage facility, make arrangement with them yourself and ship the metal to and from them or better yet store it with a local facility if you have one.


EXACTLY.

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oldAG

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Reply with quote  #24 
"The creditor list shows $8,268,909 worth of metal stored for about 100 customers. The March financial statement shows $932K returned to customers ("the amount of inventory that existed as of
April 11, 2016, when the trustee took over that has been or will be returned to customers who own the inventory."). That leaves $7,337,000 or so of presumably stolen metal."


That does not address the issue I was talking about, how much inventory was actually counted in those vaults, that's what I kept waiting to see and never did.

I know the Trustee said he found many discrepancies between what was in boxes and what was on the records for customers and I got the distinct impression that if there was a mismatch, the customer was out in the cold.

Then wasn't there and issue with computer records and paper records and to what belonged to who in those vaults?

One part of the above stated no inventory was taken when they filed for chapter 11 and then there is data for April 2016 showing $1,168,017 of inventory in VAULT and an additional $3,635,066 of inventory that doesn't explain where it was located. Was it just laying around on the warehouse floor or was that inventory taken from the vaults that the Trustee couldn't link to someone. It still doesn't add up to $8.3 million that should have been in the vaults, but how much of that really belonged to customers that got screwed by the trustee.

Plus it wasn't stolen in the Bullion world of today, it was financially redistributed for the greater good of, hum, let me get ahold of the owner of Bullion Direct for the rest of that line and I get back to you.

I don't have any sympathy for Hansen, but I have a tremendous amount of contempt for the legal gangbang that has been taking place out front and in the open from the start.

That's what I was saying about Tulving, bogus charges that could be applied to the masses in a plea deal. But you have to know they had more on him and settled for peanuts just to make this go away without a trial.

The problem I see, if they don't send both Bullion Direct and NWTM owners to jail, it will only send a strong message to others that they can get away with it as well. But what is 30 months in jail for a $10 or $20 million theft???
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oldAG

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Reply with quote  #25 
Whatever happened at that 204 Exam concerning the 500K worth of Precious metal Diane sold to pay for legal fees that they claimed she was not suppose to have when she supposedly claimed she was broke, so to speak?

Did that take place or not and what was the outcome?
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JG

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Posts: 960
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldAG
Whatever happened at that 204 Exam concerning the 500K worth of Precious metal Diane sold to pay for legal fees that they claimed she was not suppose to have when she supposedly claimed she was broke, so to speak?

Did that take place or not and what was the outcome?


I haven't heard anything yet. A few possibilities: Diane is doing a great job delaying the process, there are legal technicalities causing delays, or the exam has been done but we just haven't heard any results yet. Sometimes you never even find out that the 2004 exam was done.

I usually find out when a reference is made in court documents. If the exam isn't productive, it might be a year later in a fee application. Or there may be an adversary proceeding against her, or perhaps just a mention in a monthly report.

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