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nobody

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Reply with quote  #16 
It's not often a person could potentially have thousands of charges brought against them.  Give the authorities time to work on it.
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JG

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
I guess it is pretty obvious now the Nucleo patent and IP and trading platform are truly worth ZERO

Software used for an alleged ponzi ... that tends to have a very negative smell to it

does anyone really think there will be money coming back to them courtesy of the bankruptcy court and lawyers and other leeches?

these $850 an hour lawyers are designed to suck up every last penny


We'll see about the patent -- if a reputable ("if") firm came up with the $10M valuation, it should have at least *some* value to it. Although the Ponzi-like aspect might encourage lowball bids, that isn't a given.

As for $850/hour, that was in the Tulving case -- Mr. Martinec only charges $450/hour (with his partners charging just $350/hour). Of course it all depends on how efficient they are ("Yeah, I'm billing for an hour to research the law on X and another hour to write the motion" versus "I know the law inside and out and have done lots of these motions, that'll just take a half hour total" -- that piece is very hard to determine).




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bull123

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Reply with quote  #18 
I don't get where his software patent came into effect for just taking money and not buying product.

what did this software do?

and if it did do "good things" ... why wasn't it doing those "good things"

and if the software really worked well, it would leave even more tracks ... and why would someone who was allegedly grabbing millions, want everything documented in a nice neat cpu program???

the whole thing stinks ... and those who sent him money know it

because they have no money ... and no gold ...

that tends to piss people off
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JG

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
I don't get where his software patent came into effect for just taking money and not buying product.

what did this software do?

and if it did do "good things" ... why wasn't it doing those "good things"

and if the software really worked well, it would leave even more tracks ... and why would someone who was allegedly grabbing millions, want everything documented in a nice neat cpu program???


The software, among other things, would match orders. You put in a bid for $18.00 for a product, and there is an ask for $17.90, and it will match the two orders. The software and company then take care of getting the product from the seller, shipping to the buyer, processing payment, etc.

The software worked exactly as planned. Generate a report, and it will show you $33M of metal (actually, the ounces of various metals, it may not have shown a dollar amount). Software alone cannot prevent someone from walking into the vault and removing metal, or prevent someone from shipping out a customers' metal rather than purchasing it.

I do not see how blame can be placed on the patent, or the software. In my mind, that's strictly a people issue.

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nobody

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Reply with quote  #20 
Yes, for as little as I personally value the software, it didn't, itself, seem flawed - just poorly maintained, and not up to standards or requirements expected of someone implementing similar functionality today.

And the patent, if valid, is valuable - in 2012, it seemed possibly enforceable, at least enough to an NPE to collect nuisance judgements.  In 2015, it seems less so (to me), and thus less likely to interest an NPE (especially if BD truly is the only relevant practitioner of this patent).

I'm not saying my valuation is right - merely that I'll offer to write a check for it -- which is more than I bet that firm in Dallas would do right now.
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bull123

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Reply with quote  #21 
that doesn't seem so complicated ...

someone would pay $10 million for that ???

in my opinion, the software is a much a scam as him storing away our gold
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jkline

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Reply with quote  #22 
Bull,

I think you are purposefully misinterpreting what I wrote or the effects of last night's bender are clouding your judgement. 

This topic is titled "What type of guy is CM?", the purpose being to understand him, his motivations and presumably why we trusted him enough to do business with him.   What I wrote was just a little factoid about CM.  Add it to the pile.

I will say that I transacted an immense dollar amount of purchases and sales with BD since 2003, and am very lucky to not find myself listed in the top ten creditors.   I find it difficult to believe that if he did have a failing business model since '99, that he was able to cover his tracks so completely and keep the business going so smoothly for so long.  It is possible he had two sets of books: the business could have been more profitable than we are led to believe, and he stole from the company and from us.  The books must be gone over by an expert. 

Another example of unpunished white collar crime:  Corzine.

Question:  does CM have any political connections?  Has he made any financial donations to local/state politicians that could buy some protection?





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bull123

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Reply with quote  #23 
CM doesn't need protection

the laziness of the system in 2015 is all he needs

my hunch is the money is burried somewhere ... he might get a slap on the wrist ... and down the road he will enjoy a very lavish retirement courtesy of us all ...

and by the way ... that patent is worthless ... trying to convince yourselves that someone is going to pay anything for it, is as delusional in retrospect as thinking CM has our Gold stored away for us.

it's sad ... but it's 2015 ... and it's the way it is ...

IMHO
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JG

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkline
... I will say that I transacted an immense dollar amount of purchases and sales with BD since 2003, and am very lucky to not find myself listed in the top ten creditors.   I find it difficult to believe that if he did have a failing business model since '99, that he was able to cover his tracks so completely and keep the business going so smoothly for so long.  It is possible he had two sets of books: the business could have been more profitable than we are led to believe, and he stole from the company and from us.  ...

Question:  does CM have any political connections?  Has he made any financial donations to local/state politicians that could buy some protection?


All it took was making sure that the few people that knew the vault was nearly empty weren't going to blab about it. We have yet to see about tracks, whether everything is clear or hidden.

The business may well have been profitable, despite what Mr. Bensimon has led us to believe. I think he is saying that it was not profitable on paper. He's just thinking "In year X, they brought in $1.5M and spent $3.5M. That's a bad business model. It has been unprofitable since the beginning." But if in each of those years, the $2M discrepancy was funded with customer money, and in reality $2.5M was going towards shady investments (e.g. gold mining companies) and interest-free loans to employees to fund startups and to spend $6M to create software almost no different than what they already had (just for fun), it is a losing proposition on paper, but without the bogus stuff is profitable.

So yes, it certainly may have been profitable.

As for political connections, I've seen some contributions he made, but all pretty small (e.g. $500 in 2004$500 in 2008 and $250 in 2012. Perhaps between 2008 and 2012 with the massive losses he cut his salary down to its current $275K level, and he could no longer afford the hefty $500 donations.

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nobody

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Reply with quote  #25 
I won't defend corzine, but like tulving, it's a completely different scale of crime

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bull123

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Reply with quote  #26 
Why would it matter if the business was "profitable", if the guy running it was pocketing the $$$

there is a huge logic gaps here

he could have been selling the Gold under cost considering the little Gold being bought

let's say he was 10% under spot ... and everyone was ordering ... all excited about the "deal" they were getting ... how lucky we are ... how smart we are ... yippy

But at the same time the CM vault is all but empty

or the contents stolen ... or ALLOWED to be stolen (has anyone thought of that)

this is why we are all so screwed when it comes to CM

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tboll

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Reply with quote  #27 
Why didn't IDS fess up [sooner]?  Maybe they should be sued as well since they seem to be part of this Cover UP?  ("Nothing suspicious here.  So what if we only got a few $100s of metal when we thought we were supposed to get millions?  Maybe the price has dropped 98% since they purchased their metal."

Obviously no whistle-blowers in that crowd.
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bull123

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Reply with quote  #28 
all this theft crap is rampant in the gold industry

that's why no one says anything

and it is all based around this "storage happy horse sh**"

u give us money ... we store your gold ... ya right ...
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JG

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
Why didn't IDS fess up [sooner]?  Maybe they should be sued as well since they seem to be part of this Cover UP?  ("Nothing suspicious here.  So what if we only got a few $100s of metal when we thought we were supposed to get millions?  Maybe the price has dropped 98% since they purchased their metal."

Obviously no whistle-blowers in that crowd.


I see two sides here:

[1] They don't know how much metal Bullion Direct is storing for customers -- they appear to be a company that primarily facilitates transactions between buyers and seller, and sells metal (presumably Dillon Gage, IDS' parent, provided the catalog metal that didn't come from customers).

[2] On the other hand, Bullion Direct labelled a Dillon Gage employee as a "Market Maker", and it appears Dillon Gage is owed more money than the value of the metal at IDS. And there are signs that IDS twice learned of smaller amounts of metal (the final paperwork shows a higher storage rating, suggesting less metal, and in March, 2015 IDS added a $300/mo minimum storage fee -- again suggesting less metal than anticipated).

It sound be interesting to hear more about the $775,000 in payments to Dillon Gage in the 90 days before the bankruptcy, with just $60,891.26 still owed. Were those loans? Product financing? I would assume it is not from their Market Maker cash account, since that has much more than $60,891.26 in it. That $775,000 could potentially be "clawed back" as preference payments.

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jkline

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Reply with quote  #30 
Bull,

It matters alot.  If the business was not profitable, then there are probably no assets to find-- he spent the money as it came in, combined with business expenses.  If the business was profitable AND still went south, it means money was siphoned away from the company and might still exist.

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