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Dcscott

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Reply with quote  #1 
Just having a thought... What if you were the judge ,and had lattitue on the sentence imposed on McAllister.
What would it be?
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Dcscott

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Reply with quote  #2 
1) restitution,
2) max. Federal sentence for grand theft.. 15 yrs
3) additional redress sentence of 1 day in jail for each plaintiff. Roughly 16.5 yrs ( consecutive).
4) the accused can buy his way out of the additional sentence by paying the plaintiffs $100 per day.
5) one hour of public service for each plaintiff..(6000 hours)
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Dcscott

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Reply with quote  #3 

Alanis Morisset's  former manager got sentenced to 6 years for stealing $7 Million. that would mean at least 21 yrs for  $24 Million.



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bull123

Senior Member
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Reply with quote  #4 
Charles didn't steal ...

He just didn't understand how to do business ... His Mom will do it so much better second time around

Let's all wish Bullion Universe happy days and the absolute best of luck
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Dcscott

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
Charles didn't steal ...

He just didn't understand how to do business ... His Mom will do it so much better second time around

Let's all wish Bullion Universe happy days and the absolute best of luck


I did not authorize McAllister to use my bullion/deposit/credit. For any purpose. Per contract he was supposed to hold it in storage. ie:
he stole it. Call it embezzled if you will, but the fact remains it is gone by his doing.
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bull123

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Reply with quote  #6 
that's pretty tough language ...

give Bullion Universe a chance to regain your lost metals through their profits

in fact ... why not kick things off by doing a deal with Bullion Universe yourself?

everyone deserves a second chance ... just sayin[thumb]
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tboll

Senior Member
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Posts: 292
Reply with quote  #7 
Bull, my biggest problem with the new BU isn't that it is the resurrection of Bullion Direct (or that it is still owned by the McAllister family) but that I can't see it as being profitable or that well utilized due to it's fees (which it NEEDS in order to hope to be profitable)..
--$75 (plus) to deposit a product
--2-4% commission on sale of product?
--$50 (plus) to deliver?

Let's say I buy 10 (1oz) Silver coins from BU and I get them at a JM Bullion price ($18.68@).  I would then have to pay $50 (rather than free) to get them shipped to me.  That's already 26% higher than the cost of buying them from JMB.  Lets say a few months after delivery, the price of silver goes up 20% and I want to sell them (@22.42).  So I pay $75 to send them back and sell them for $224.20 and I pay a commission of $4.48.  So if you add up all my costs... Bought for $186.80 + $50 (ship) + $75 (ship) + $4.48 (commission) = $316.28.  And I sold for $224.20.  So my net is a LOSS of $92.08.  That's a loss of about 50% rather than a profit of 20%.  The numbers just don't work.

The only way you could profitably buy and sell on BU is if you were to NOT take delivery and then we are back to the never seeing your metal, so can you really be sure it's there?

PS:  Yes, if you spend thousands rather than hundreds you will stand a better chance of recouping your shipping charges, but are you sure you want to risk thousands with BU?  And of course, you could just let them keep your "metal" and only pay storage costs.


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oldAG

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Reply with quote  #8 
I looked at their site and I don't understand how you can make money by using their services. It looks like a loss to me unless you are possibly trying to sell a very large volume of any product. Maybe if you actually join they provide more detail than what they do without joining, but I couldn't see any actual products for sale by BU or anyone else and the prices they quote for services are vague at best with a + after them, which only tells me that is the starting cost and it goes up from there.

They list products but without any prices and the Silver I was looking at came in one generic category by product size and not any specifics. Then they mentioned they have separate storage for some and community storage for other items that you can deposit into or buy from with no guarantee of what you will get or that you would even get back  the same item as what you deposited if you wanted to withdraw your metal later. What is that all about, deposit some of the cheapest generic products on the market to unload on people not realizing what they are buying. What about old generic products deposited into that account, same as buying junk from the scrap pile at most dealers. No information provided about how that function works or what the cost are associated with it, just some small print.

I don't understand why anyone would buy metal from this site unless they know they are buying it for less than they can from any real dealer and that can be done for some really low premiums.

And selling on this site looks to be much more expensive than simply going to your LCS and unloading for $1 under spot unless you happen to have a large quantity to justify shipping to an online dealer and selling it for spot in some cases.

Plus why in the world would anyone that knows about what has happened in the retail business world over the past few years have anything to do with another online dealer and storing their precious metal, that is just asking for your life savings in some cases to disappear.

I know I have no stake in BU ever making a dime for the creditors that have been taken to the cleaners, but I just can't see anyone doing any business with these people for any reason.

To me that would be like buying Silver and asking Tulving to store it for you with his new dealership if he was to open one after being released in the not to distant future.
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oldAG

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Posts: 59
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
so negative, all of you ...

give them a chance ... let them spread their wings ... show folks what they can do



You seem to back them so I assume you have a full understanding how their system is working as a  member.

Would you care to explain how someone can benefit from doing business with BU versus dealing with any other dealer as far as buying and then selling their products in the future and how it is actually cheaper.

I'm not saying it can't be, I just don't see it  from the information I'm able to see without joining and I don't care to put my name on another list of advertisers for no reason at all to find out if there is better information hidden inside their organization once a member.

I would like to know for sure if anyone knows exactly what that deposit fee of $75+ really consists of. Is it their fee for adding your product into their system and then the + is going to be some actual shipping charge added or is the + just in case a shipping charge should exceed $75 in total. They  are shipping you a container so they are spending their time and cost to do that alone and that is not free, which has to be included into that $75+ figure at a minimum and then there is the actual shipping fee unless you are responsible for the shipping fee and they didn't mention that part in their little blurb. They are not going to be doing all this handling of shipping containers to customers with their time and money or Brinks handling your shipment for free either. So this is why I am concerned about the $75+ charge to deposit a product and what all is involved in that fee and what other cost are there for the customer? Then there is that $50+ to deliver fee, which clearly sounds like their fee to remove your product from the vault and ship it to the customer who bought it form you, assuming your paying the shipping charges. And that would probably be a reasonable expected expense from the bullion vault to handle your product, but an expensive handling charge versus what a dealer would charge for doing the same kind of function. I can also assume the + is to cover any shipping expenses above whatever minimum amount is left over from the $50 deliver fee.

Again this seems like a lot of expense above an beyond what one would ever have to deal with for any decent size of Silver sales, but maybe not a large order depending on what these + amounts actually add up to be.

So when you say give these people a chance, do they really offer a financial alternative to simply buying and selling through normal channels that offer great deals.

Andrew Hoffman is always soliciting customers and asking them to give his organization a chance. The problem is, their premiums are so far overpriced it isn't even funny, but for newbies that have no idea where to buy or what is considered a good premium for any Silver product, he can sell his goods to them and get away with it. But I don't know why anyone who knows anything about buying silver would ever buy from them at their huge markups. Which is why I'm asking these questions about BU and their operation and is it a reasonable alternative that people can actually save money by dealing with them versus just buying and selling through normal channels.

I would never recommend anyone go to a dealer and spend an extra $1 an ounce just so that money could be used to help pay back creditors who got screwed in the past. It's not their responsibility in life.
If BU is at least as good or better deal than people can get through normal channels then it's at least an option to consider if they want to take the risk.
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bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #10 
Your paying for the SECURITY of dealing with them (CM's Mom and associates)

folks with years of experience in the industry

actually I think their rates are cheap, when you consider all the time they've put into creating this Juggernaut

that web site is amazing ... very nicely designed
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oldAG

Member
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Posts: 59
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
Your paying for the SECURITY of dealing with them (CM's Mom and associates)

folks with years of experience in the industry

actually I think their rates are cheap, when you consider all the time they've put into creating this Juggernaut

that web site is amazing ... very nicely designed



The web site design doesn't buy you anything

How many dealers do not have years of experience in the industry, especially if your dealing with someone that has been in business for at least several years?

It's nice that you feel there rates are cheap when you consider the amount of work that went into the web design, but what has that to do with how much it's going to cost someone to use their service versus going through normal channels getting the best rates possible, that's all I was asking???

Too many question and people need some real answers before they should jump into using their service not simply your opinion on what you think of their web design and years of experience.

If you can't answer these questions then maybe someone else can that actually knows the answers.

I'm all for my fellow stackers getting the best bang for their dollar and the information provided on this web site sure leaves a lot to be desired when trying to figure out if they make sense to use their services or not...
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Cbrad01

Junior Member
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Posts: 29
Reply with quote  #12 
I can't see anyway that it makes business sense to do business with the site. The cost model is not competitive with other sellers or buyers.
It's cheaper to by on traditional sites, and it appears it would be more profitable to sale to the local pawn shop then through the site.

After that then I consider who owns the company it risky at best. It does appear Mommy purchased the assets and setup the company to protect her son (cover his ass).
Without knowing the whole inside story from what I have read mom was involved in the last venture that cost as all, did she know? Should she have know?

At this point even if the cost structure was favorable I would not trust them to hold my metal or cash...

And as the saying goes, you can cover a pig in makeup but it's still a pig. Making a pretty new website does not create safety.
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oldAG

Member
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Posts: 59
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
the family learned a lot over the past 15 years

it's true a few people got burned (allegedly) of their life savings from the previous outfit

but that's over now ... in the past ... rear view mirror

the web design, CM's Mom's experience and the addition of Dan who is motivated to finally accomplish something in his otherwise mundane life, make this entire operation a winner.

plus the Bullion prices are CHEAP !!!

PLUS I love the web site design ... the vault in the background gives you a feeling of safety and assurance.  Like a warm blanket ...
The fact that you have to trust them to properly store your Gold, is the clients worry, not yours[wave]


I can appreciate someone not having to worry about the safety issue, it bothered me having my Silver stored in my house for years until I moved it to a safer location. However that's a personal issue of safety and it all depends on how much value your talking about.

Just how cheap are the bullion prices and what kind of bullion are you talking about and the premiums are only one factor, the question here is what are all these other charges and how much do they add up to versus doing it on your own the old fashioned way. It really doesn't matter if you personally like the idea of this system or not, it's how well does this system work for others and for the types of metal they are dealing with and the amounts they are thinking about trading. Some people are thinking in terms of very small quantities of less than 100 ounces of Silver while others would never consider trading anything less than a thousand ounces at a time. Which might seem like rich mans metal to new investors but not to those that bought Silver for $4 an ounce years ago.

As far as cheap, are you talking about the prices other people sell their products at or potentially what BU might be willing to sell something at. I didn't see anything for sale  by them so I don't know if they are offering products themselves.  The statement of cheap is just that, it's all relative to ones interpretation of cheap. I don't doubt your interpretation but is it really, I've been trying to get numbers of the operation for myself and others to help people make a decision and no one seems to be willing to offer anything so far other than generalizations of what they think about the process which isn't any help at all when it comes to making a financial decision.

I mean if you could say BU is selling 2017 ASE's for $2.30 an ounce over spot that is some specific information and very competitive pricing. If they are charging $3.00 an ounce for and ASE, then they would not be competitive at all.

Every dealer claims to have competitive pricing and that is not true at all unless they are comparing themselves to someone else that has even higher prices.

But if you could be a lot more specific about the questionable pricing for services and actual premiums for some of the typical products, that would be very helpful to a lot of people in making some kind of decision on rather they might want to deal with BU or not.

Not a great deal of information but the basics that is offered such as,

one ounce round 59¢ over spot
one ounce bar 65¢ over spot
ten ounce bar 69¢ over spot per ounce
100 ounce bar 39¢ over spot per ounce

Or maybe some people are selling their products at the spot price or even less, whatever.

Real smooth operation they have going there, you can't even get in to see anything without providing your credit card information, code, date of birth and S.S. if your dumb enough, but the SS is the only thing not mandatory, but they have a box for you to enter the information, it's just not red flagged as a mandatory item. What kind of crap it this and why would they even try to extract that from anyone??? Now I don't know if they will even allow you to see anything even if you do provide all that information. The next page may very well demand you deposit funds into an account to actually gain access to their super secret web site. I don't know how these people actually expect to attract customers without displaying their goods or maybe they don't actually have any yet, I can sure see why that would be a problem!!! Obviously I backed out of this place when they wanted my credit card information so I couldn't go any further to actually see what else they had in store for me after that. It's one thing to trust someone with your metal, but to outright give them all your personal information including everything they need to load up your credit card is asking for trouble when your not even buying anything. I never leave my credit card information on any site, at least not intentionally for future use.
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harley_52

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 130
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
Charles didn't steal ...

He just didn't understand how to do business ... His Mom will do it so much better second time around

Let's all wish Bullion Universe happy days and the absolute best of luck


We live in different worlds, Bull.

As for me, there's absolutely no doubt that he stole my money.  No doubt at all.  I would no more send him (or his mother) a penny than I would throw it into the river.  

Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on ME.
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Dcscott

Member
Registered:
Posts: 50
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
that's pretty tough language ...

give Bullion Universe a chance to regain your lost metals through their profits

in fact ... why not kick things off by doing a deal with Bullion Universe yourself?

everyone deserves a second chance ... just sayin[thumb]


Oh no, Bull, that is severely moderated language.
I am forced ,by law, to allow the thief and his god forsaken family to try to return what he stole, over a very long ,possibly a decade, period of time.
In my view, I don't care if he has to sell every asset he owns, and puts his daughters up for sale on the slave trade market to do it. He owes us all, a great deal of money, and his soul should be destined to the deepest level of hell until he makes good. Right now, since his mommy is (allegedly) doing the job for him, he should be in the nastiest jail there is, spending his days breaking rocks and his nights sleeping on a cold slab without a pillow or blanket. His second chance can come after he has fixed his first transgretion.
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