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tboll

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Reply with quote  #1 
JG, what exactly are "schedules" and "statements"?  Will they include the names and amounts for all known creditors?  Will they include all known assets of the company?  Will you be looking up everyone's name?  Posting them (in some format)?  Or posting the PUBLIC dockets in their entirety?  (Do you think they will be available today or will it take some time for them to be deposited?)
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JG

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
JG, what exactly are "schedules" and "statements"?  Will they include the names and amounts for all known creditors?  Will they include all known assets of the company?  Will you be looking up everyone's name?  Posting them (in some format)?  Or posting the PUBLIC dockets in their entirety?  (Do you think they will be available today or will it take some time for them to be deposited?)


Great question.

With Tulving, the list of creditors was sealed (it turned into Chapter 7, where everyone must file a Proof of Claim, so creditors did not need to see if they were on the list). You can see all the schedules they filed here.

Looking at a few online, the show the account number, name, address, date claim was incurred, consideration for claim (e.g. "Insurance", "Software", "Consulting"), and the amount of the claim. It also includes checkboxes for "Contingent", "Unliquidated", and "Disputed" -- from what I have read, if any of those boxes are checked, you need to file a Proof of Claim form.

For the PFG bankruptcy, the Schedule F (creditors holding unsecured nonpriority claims, where Bullion Direct is likely going to place everyone), the names and addresses were not listed, just the account numbers. The vast majority were listed as disputed and unliquidated.

The breakdown of assets may not be as detailed as desired, but will show how much they believe the patent and other intellectual property is worth.

I will likely post a redacted version as soon as I get it. I'm not sure if they will be sending a copy to creditors. I expect to have a way to look up claims, but need to get the schedules first and see what it will take to make them searchable.


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JG

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Reply with quote  #3 
Given the list of creditors holding the 20 largest unsecured claims, the "consideration for the claim" will likely be listed as "Website Claimant." And given that same list, it is expected that they will not be listed as contingent, unliquidated, or disputed.
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tboll

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Reply with quote  #4 
>For the PFG bankruptcy, the Schedule F (creditors holding unsecured nonpriority claims, where Bullion Direct is likely going to place everyone), the names and addresses were not listed, just the account numbers. 

So might Schedule F be posted and we can just look up our account number (so identities will remain hidden but we can still check to see if we are included in the list)?
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JG

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
So might Schedule F be posted and we can just look up our account number (so identities will remain hidden but we can still check to see if we are included in the list)?


The 20 largest creditors were not afforded such a privilege. But, we shall see.

PFG stated "In the Schedules, the Debtor has listed accounts by account numbers only and has not included the names and addresses of the account holders in order to protect the privacy and confidentiality of that information." So presumably that is an option (although PFG was Chapter 7.

I'm sure that Mr. Bensimon and Mr. Martinec know that bullion customers strongly value their privacy, and would do whatever possible to ensure that. After making customers look like fools (implying they were at fault for their loss, since the Bullion Direct felt the terms allowed them to not even buy the metal), I think they would be happy to take an opportunity to show customers that they are not being treated as the enemy.

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tappi

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JG

I'm sure that Mr. Bensimon and Mr. Martinec know that bullion customers strongly value their privacy, and would do whatever possible to ensure that. After making customers look like fools (implying they were at fault for their loss, since the Bullion Direct felt the terms allowed them to not even buy the metal), I think they would be happy to take an opportunity to show customers that they are not being treated as the enemy.



Then again, they might not give a s***.
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JG

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tappi
Then again, they might not give a s***.


Imagine, for example, if they did something to royally upset customers.

Those customers then decide on some magazines to pitch an article to. "We had $40M of gold taken from us", the customers say. "Dan Bensimon and Joseph Martinec used some jiggery pokery [thanks nobody for the term] to say that Bullion Direct could interpret the terms in such a way as to not buy metal for an account advertised as 'allocated'."

I think there are a lot of magazines that would be interested. So they may well be trying to act very carefully so as to minimize the annoyance to customers.

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tappi

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JG

Imagine, for example, if they did something to royally upset customers.

Those customers then decide on some magazines to pitch an article to. "We had $40M of gold taken from us", the customers say. "Dan Bensimon and Joseph Martinec used some jiggery pokery [thanks nobody for the term] to say that Bullion Direct could interpret the terms in such a way as to not buy metal for an account advertised as 'allocated'."

I think there are a lot of magazines that would be interested. So they may well be trying to act very carefully so as to minimize the annoyance to customers.



I hope you're right.  I hope they still have enough sense in their brains to do this but looking back at the part where they imply the customers are to blame, I get the feeling that they stopped caring about the customers years ago.
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JG

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tappi
Quote:
Originally Posted by JG

Imagine, for example, if they did something to royally upset customers.

Those customers then decide on some magazines to pitch an article to. "We had $40M of gold taken from us", the customers say. "Dan Bensimon and Joseph Martinec used some jiggery pokery [thanks nobody for the term] to say that Bullion Direct could interpret the terms in such a way as to not buy metal for an account advertised as 'allocated'."

I think there are a lot of magazines that would be interested. So they may well be trying to act very carefully so as to minimize the annoyance to customers.



I hope you're right.  I hope they still have enough sense in their brains to do this but looking back at the part where they imply the customers are to blame, I get the feeling that they stopped caring about the customers years ago.


Charles, quite possibly. But Dan and Joseph likely hadn't heard of Bullion Direct before mid-June. So they presumably started off neutral.

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