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bythenbrs

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Reply with quote  #1 
Perhaps this has been addressed previously but I cannot locate the topic if it was. Mailed BD a check in May for a catalog order before I visited the BD forums and learned about the suspension of business operations. Contacted my bank immediately and had them cancel my check.

I was aware that cancellation of the check or failure to make payment within the specified hold period can result in a charge or penalty. I was willing to take that risk but that was before the filing for bankruptcy. What should I expect now? Started differently, what is my potential exposure to BD through the courts. The purchase value was about $4,900.00.

Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks.

BytheNbrs
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nobody

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Reply with quote  #2 
I like quoting myself, so I will!

Quote:

The filing requires you to email two people with a basis in law or fact in order to object.

What are some facts you could assert as a basis for not wishing to enter into the transaction anymore?
 
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shooter magaven

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bythenbrs
Perhaps this has been addressed previously but I cannot locate the topic if it was. Mailed BD a check in May for a catalog order before I visited the BD forums and learned about the suspension of business operations. Contacted my bank immediately and had them cancel my check.

I was aware that cancellation of the check or failure to make payment within the specified hold period can result in a charge or penalty. I was willing to take that risk but that was before the filing for bankruptcy. What should I expect now? Started differently, what is my potential exposure to BD through the courts. The purchase value was about $4,900.00.

Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks.

BytheNbrs


If I'm not mistaken, I sent BD a check in May for a catalog order and recieved my product several weeks later. For what it's worth, I may have done the same (stopped payment) but I had no idea there were any problems except delays.

I got lucky, you might have recieved your order or might be out 5Gs. At any rate, I think it would be pretty arrogant for them to penalize you knowing they would likely not have even had the metal to send you in the first place.
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JG

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bythenbrs
Perhaps this has been addressed previously but I cannot locate the topic if it was. Mailed BD a check in May for a catalog order before I visited the BD forums and learned about the suspension of business operations. Contacted my bank immediately and had them cancel my check. I was aware that cancellation of the check or failure to make payment within the specified hold period can result in a charge or penalty. I was willing to take that risk but that was before the filing for bankruptcy. What should I expect now? Started differently, what is my potential exposure to BD through the courts. The purchase value was about $4,900.00. Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks. BytheNbrs


Even the attorney handling the bankruptcy does not understand if the checks are part of the estate or not. At the hearing, he said something about how if the checks are not part of the estate, there is no problem stopping payment -- but that if you guess wrong, it could violate the automatic stay (where you are prevented from collecting money from the bankruptcy estate).

My *guess* is that if you stopped payment *after* they suspended operations but *before* the bankruptcy was filed, you should be OK. Bullion Direct has checks in their hands, which are (in my mind) promises of payment. Bankruptcy prevents you from taking actions to collect debt, but if you stopped payment before the bankruptcy, that is an action you took before bankruptcy. They now hold a piece of paper that was once a promise to pay, but that promise to pay was revoked before the bankruptcy.

If it were me, I would believe that theory. Then is the question of whether to [1] believe it strongly enough that you know you don't need to take any further actions, and risk the chance that you are wrong (and in theory could be sued for the money), or [2] send an objection to the two E-mail addresses listed in the docket, and explain that you stopped payment before the bankruptcy and therefore the check will bounce, due to actions taken before the bankruptcy.

Again, this is intended as information and not legal advice, just what I might do in a similar situation.

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harley_52

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Reply with quote  #5 
If it was me, I'd celebrate my good judgement and not worry about it at all.  I wish I could say I had done exactly the same thing.
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afterdark

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley_52
If it was me, I'd celebrate my good judgement and not worry about it at all.  I wish I could say I had done exactly the same thing.


Me too!
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Khachir7

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Posts: 72
Reply with quote  #7 
I have cancelled the check, but it was after the bankruptcy. My argument is that I entered into the contract for a transaction that was misrepresented by BD. It was my understanding that the $ was going to be used to purchase and hold metal on my behalf, but instead BD was going to use 100% of my funds to support its operations. Furthermore, by canceling the check I am breaking the contract for that trade.

However, now I am wondering... My check was about $250, and my stored metal was worth $12k. Should I just "uncancel" the check?
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nobody

Senior Member
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Posts: 360
Reply with quote  #8 
This is not advice, this is me considering what I might assert if I had an uncashed check and didn't wish for it to be cashed under certain scenarios.

At the time I entered into the transaction, I believed I was entering into a contract for tangible physical products.  Evidence filed to the court suggests to me that this was not the case.
At the time I entered into the transaction, I believed purchases were being stored in custody, and do not wish to enter into a contract for precious metals held in any name other than my own.
At the time I entered into the transaction, I relied on (some specific public statement) made on the BD forums that no longer appear to be true.
At the time I entered into the transaction, I believed dual agent nature of BD's business caused settlement of the transaction to enact property transfer rights, and have been given new reason to believe this interpretation is not supported by BD.
At the time I entered into the transaction, I understood delivery would be made within 28 days per the ToS - I no longer believe this to be likely or true.

Perhaps you can come up with other interesting facts as reasons you wish the court to honor your request to not treat those monies as property of the estate?

(I have no idea if this will work by the way - but if you stick to facts, the court should consider it)

-n

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