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JG

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Reply with quote  #1 
I first heard about the intellectual property from Charles in a brief discussion I had with him, where I was concerned about the company being insolvent (he shut down the next day, insolvent). Charles told me that the intellectual property represented "significant assets."

The bankruptcy petition showed assets of $10M-$50M. That suggested the IP was worth at least $9M or so, once it was known that only about $633K of metal was left.

The Bensimon Declaration went into more details about Nucleo, and their attempts at gaining money from the intellectual property. He stated that the "intellectual property has real potential for creating a source of funds to pay allowed claims of creditors."

But now it is becoming clear that Charles was delusional. The people in charge of filing tax returns left in September, 2012, Charles changed the Terms of Service and paid a $100K retainer to a bankruptcy attorney. Yet he continued taking $275K/year salary out of an insolvent company, and didn't bother to file tax returns. And he even took out over $30K of severance pay several weeks after shutting down.

Clearly, Charles' personal opinion of the value of the intellectual property is meaningless.

So the question becomes:  was a valuation ever done on any of the intellectual property? I think the unsecured creditors committee (normally formed within 30 days after the bankruptcy filing) should be asking that question. If the intellectual property does not have significant value, this might best be a Chapter 7 bankruptcy.
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ChevyRacer

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Reply with quote  #2 
He's just a standard-issue SCAM ARTIST. Arrest him...
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jkline

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Reply with quote  #3 
Bah.

Nucleo is worth crap.  Can we still buy and sell bullion online?  Yes. 

What person would pay millions for software that guarantees bankruptcy? 



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nobody

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Reply with quote  #4 
The value of anything is what the market will bear.  As far as I know, the market for the patent is a wall hanging, and the nucleo exchange is dated at best - and drug so far down by association with BD as to actually have negative value (cost of rebranding).

As far as I know, the buyer, not the estate, determines its actual value - and JG knows where I stand on its value.



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JG

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody
As far as I know, the buyer, not the estate, determines its actual value - and JG knows where I stand on its value.


I'm not asking how much it is actually worth, but what it has been professionally valued at.

If no such valuation has been done (as I am beginning to suspect), it sounds like the players in the bankruptcy have been playing games with us.

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nobody

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Reply with quote  #6 
And you and I are free to disagree here, but I am of a mind that "UNKNOWN" is a deliberate place holder for "DON'T WANT TO ADMIT"

After all, numbers are easy to get, no?  Just ask what someone will pay for it.

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JG

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody
And you and I are free to disagree here, but I am of a mind that "UNKNOWN" is a deliberate place holder for "DON'T WANT TO ADMIT"

After all, numbers are easy to get, no?  Just ask what someone will pay for it.



That's exactly why I am concerned about "UNKNOWN." I think it would be nice if someone were able to force them to either state what the valuation was (and who did the valuation), or that the valuation was simply a figment of Charles' imagination as he wrote the $30K severance checks 2 weeks after shutting down the business owing some $40M or so.

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shooter magaven

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Reply with quote  #8 
This Bankruptcy Petition value (10-50 mil), is this a formal declaration under oath backed by supporting documents? Or is it just an arbitrary (guesstimate) figure to get the ball rolling?
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nobody

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Reply with quote  #9 
It's essentially a non-binding guesstimate - they had to fill out something in the form, so they picked something that looked like it might balance the estate more closely than it does.
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tboll

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Reply with quote  #10 
Had the liabilities and assets not been made to matched very closely in the beginning, wouldn't the bankruptcy have been a chapter 7 instead of a chapter 11?  I think its always wishful thinking that the business will emerge but once the debts started fleshing out as 50x greater than the assets, I think its time to admit this is a chapter 7.
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nobody

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Reply with quote  #11 
I think it's time to admit that the people who checked those boxes did not have creditors interests in mind, or accurately represent the value of the estate to the courts.

As far as it goes, a professional valuation is called an auction, and as far as I can read, there is one bidder.

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JG

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter magaven
This Bankruptcy Petition value (10-50 mil), is this a formal declaration under oath backed by supporting documents? Or is it just an arbitrary (guesstimate) figure to get the ball rolling?


If signed by the Debtor, they declare under penalty of perjury, etc.

If signed by an attorney, it states that 707(b)(4)(D) may apply, in which case signing is "a certification that the attorney has no knowledge after an inquiry that the information in the schedules is incorrect."

I found a paper that goes into more details.

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shooter magaven

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JG
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter magaven
This Bankruptcy Petition value (10-50 mil), is this a formal declaration under oath backed by supporting documents? Or is it just an arbitrary (guesstimate) figure to get the ball rolling?


If signed by the Debtor, they declare under penalty of perjury, etc.

If signed by an attorney, it states that 707(b)(4)(D) may apply, in which case signing is "a certification that the attorney has no knowledge after an inquiry that the information in the schedules is incorrect."

I found a paper that goes into more details.



So it would follow that the estimated value of the intellectual property used in this declaration is based on actual facts, not just Chad's guess. In which case, there had to be some kind of appraisal done, right?

Otherwise it is a BS value that was 'certified' by the attorney. Or a lie by the Debtor.
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tboll

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Reply with quote  #14 
Certified that the attorney has no knowledge that it is incorrect.  (So many negatives.)

No shooter, all it means is that the lawyer has no idea what the patent is worth and claims he didn't have reason to believe  that CM was lying when he said it was worth at least $10M.  In other words, the lawyer is not claiming it to be true, he is only claiming that he does not know it to be false.  
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