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Poll Results
 
 Did you open your BDI account through the Sterling Trust (now Equity Institutional)?
 Yes 7 87%
 No 1 12%
Total votes: 8   Please or sign up to vote.


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Lars

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Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #16 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody
Has anyone here who's only got an IRA (of either type) not received an email?

The hope here is that if you only have an IRA that's well protected, and haven't been emailed, then you're not considered a creditor (because you're whole, you just don't know it).

If not, which 'flavor' of storage are your metals in?


I've got a non-IRA account and received both emails, but my wife and I have each type of IRA account, total of five accounts.  And we show up on the claimant list five times.  As for storage, my account says, "Legacy."  I never paid an additional fee for storage through Equity Institutional, even after Bullion Direct got out of the IRA business.

Seeing as I'm on the list for ALL of my accounts, I don't think anyone, even IRA holders, are whole in this deal.  I wish you were right, but I'm not optimistic.

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tboll

Senior Member
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Posts: 299
Reply with quote  #17 
Lars, don't lose all hope in the IRA yet.  Maybe CM had to keep this metal separate and back in before 2012 had it moved to Delaware Depository (which is a different depository than IDS, aka Diamond State Depository).  Since unlike the non-IRA stuff, maybe he couldn't pull Metals out of that vault without going through hoops and getting special clearance through the custodian and so he lost interest in that storage and had an employee take care of it.  Perhaps since metals couldn't be added to (or readily removed from) those IRAs, so maybe CM didn't personally keep tabs on them and instead let an employee take care of it.  I'm sure that employee is now long gone, so now, just maybe, they are still trying to search the books and find out exactly what those Delaware Depository accounts are so they they can get an inventory from that other vault?

JG, don't we only have IDS inventory at this point?  Do you think there is a chance that there might be metal at the other Delaware vault? 
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MadLeprechaun

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Posts: 1
Reply with quote  #18 
I have an IRA account and have not received any type of communication from BD.  I contacted Equity Trust early in this drama and they had no knowledge of what was happening with BD.  How is that possible? I have been told by 4 different people at Equity that customers calling them were their only source of information.  What kind of custodian is that?  What in blazes am I paying you for?!?!
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JG

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
JG, don't we only have IDS inventory at this point?  Do you think there is a chance that there might be metal at the other Delaware vault? 


The only inventory listed is from IDS. The Declaration made by Dan Bensimon refers to "the vault" (singular), but if there was a separate vault with IRA metal, he might not even be aware of it.

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tboll

Senior Member
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Posts: 299
Reply with quote  #20 
They show the Delaware Depository logo.  But who knows if they actually ever even used them.

https://www.bulliondirect.com/articles/aj/storagePartners.do

(In my line of work, we once had a trainer flying in from Palo Alto to do some in house training.  I asked her where and when she was coming in.  She informed me that she was flying into Wilmington Airport and I said, "Don't you mean Philadelphia?"  And she replied, "Oh isn't Wilmington in North Carolina?"  So I'm sure that to Texans, all depository in Delaware, especially if they are in the same city, must all be the same.  And the fact the IDS and DSD (diamond state depository) are they same doesn't help matters.)




I may be confusing the issue and perhaps BD never used Delaware  Depository.  Looking through the OLD BD forum it appears that around 2010 that Sterling Trust, the BD IRA custodian, was using Delaware Depository for their Fidelitrade PM IRA and charge BD customers who may not have been using that facility.
http://forum.bulliondirect.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3112



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JG

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Posts: 991
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboll
They show the Delaware Depository logo.  But who knows if they actually ever even used them. ...
Looking through the OLD BD forum it appears that around 2010 that Sterling Trust, the BD IRA custodian, was using Delaware Depository for their Fidelitrade PM IRA and charge BD customers who may not have been using that facility.
http://forum.bulliondirect.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3112


I believe that Bullion Direct had an arrangement (non-IRA) with Delaware Depository where you could sign up through Bullion Direct, Delaware Depository would store the metal, and BD would receive a commission. Although it was probably a tough sell, when the metal could be stored at BD for free.

As for Delaware Depository and IRAs, I believe that if BD shipped the metal to Delaware Depository, then the account statements would show Delaware Depository as where the metal was stored. If the metal was shipped to Delaware Depository, I think Bullion Direct would be out of the picture.

I could be wrong here, too -- these are just educated guesses.

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Lars

Member
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Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #22 
Well, hopefully you guys are right.  Logical thinking says only somebody who: a) is extremely stupid; b) is extremely arrogant, or; c) thinks they have enough connections to get away with it, are the only types of people who would screw with holdings in IRAs, knowing the kind of wrath the Internal Revenue Service can rain down on you if you run afoul of them. 

So it's possible IRA metal is somewhere, yet to be disclosed - but still, I'm not holding my breath.  But here's something else - the inventory list has seven silver Lunar Series I Pigs, and I had exactly that in my non-IRA account.  I don't know - what are the odds that out of up to 600 or so accounts, I'm the ONLY guy with silver Lunar Series I Pigs?  Possible?  So maybe the IDS facility WAS used only for non-IRA metal.
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tboll

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 299
Reply with quote  #23 
Assuming the vault actually does contain exactly 6 Lunar Series I Pigs and that somehow they were they ones that were in storage for you at some point in the past, there is still no reason to believe that they weren't sold a dozen times over and just not DRAWN by anyone as yet.  So even though they might have started out as yours,  they became part of the fungible mass and then CM didn't really purchase additional fungible material as more orders came in, now they are likely "owned" by a dozen or so of people who thought BD was storing their Silver Pigs.   On the other hand, maybe you were the lucky one who was the only one to ever held Silver Pigs in storage at BD, but now they are just part of the estate assets so they likely don't belong to anyone anymore.
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THX!

Junior Member
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Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #24 
My wife and I both have Roth and traditional IRA accounts with apparent"legacy storage" and another account as well. We have a lot to lose and if a legal proceeding that might be looking at Equity/Sterling as somewhat culpable as well as BDI/Nucleo/CM we would be interested.
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Lars

Member
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Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #25 
While I'm sure any metals listed on the IDS inventory will be liquidated to pay off creditors, I found some old emails I thought I'd lost.  I'll post the content one that convinces me those were my pigs on that inventory sheet.  Now, I'm not posting this to thumb my nose and say, "I told you so," but I think it's an interesting perspective on what was going on at Bullion Direct with their storage program during that period of time.  The date of the email is 2/10/2012.  I replied declining their offer of $65/coin, since I had wanted the coins for a collection and couldn't replace them for that amount.  The final email was on 2/24/2012, saying they'd received my seven replacement pigs from another dealer.  Anyway, I'll allow anyone interested to make their own inferences as to the content of the email.

Mr. [Lars],

We are contacting you today regarding the seven (7) *2007* Silver Lunar “Pig” coins (1.00 oz.) in your portfolio. 

After a recent internal audit of physical product obligations for dated products, we discovered that we do not have the dated pigs set aside for our obligation to you.  We believe that since yours were the last of our obligations for this product, it is likely they were moved to a refining lot or to the generic silver category (needle in a haystack) due to the packaging being cracked or broken (the product was unlikely suitable for fulfillment).

Regardless of how or why this problem has occurred, we will absolutely reconcile.  Before we go out to the market to replace, we wanted to check with you first to see if you were in the market to sell these at ~retail levels, as we will likely end up paying a handsome premium for this type of product.  And therefore, if it benefits you, we can offer $65/coin at this time.

Please advise either way so that we can proceed.  We are sorry for any inconvenience this has caused and will work diligently to reconcile to your satisfaction and benefit.

Sincerely,

The Bullion Direct Trading Desk

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Lars

Member
Registered:
Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #26 
More good news [rolleyes]  Just got a letter from Equity Institutional informing me of Bullion Direct's bankruptcy, and pointing out how they're not affiliated in any way with Bullion Direct.  But as a courtesy, they will waive the annual maintenance fees going forward for "this investment" (BD IRAs).  To be honest, I'd have been pretty pissed off if this goes beyond February (when they collect their maintenance fees) and they tried to bill me for that....
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