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napolm

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Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #91 
Dscott,, You are correct. When I bought 2005  the term's were. Bought and stored . No one was advised us of a change in those term's . I saved for year's to earn that money and want my silver .  
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bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #92 
Can someone provide ONE single scenario where CM is not guilty?

just lay out one slim possibility ... someone ???

it's easy to say innocent until proven guilty, but the animals who did the Paris attacks haven't been through the court system yet and no one is screaming about their potential innocence.

I understand the 30 day rule ... and that if you don't ship within 30 days and then file bankruptcy, you are part of a failed business and can't get thrown in jail ...

but most of this stuff is allegedly from years ago.

is the storage a loophole ???

if so, why isn't everyone doing it ... "hey, we'll store your gold, but it really isn't your gold, so screw you if we file bankruptcy"

???

just my opinions ... questions ... etc ...
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JG

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Posts: 981
Reply with quote  #93 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123
Can someone provide ONE single scenario where CM is not guilty?

just lay out one slim possibility ... someone ???

...

I understand the 30 day rule ... and that if you don't ship within 30 days and then file bankruptcy, you are part of a failed business and can't get thrown in jail ...

but most of this stuff is allegedly from years ago.


How about if you give me an example of someone who was locked up within 4 months in the 1990s? <G>

First, you need to identify what he is guilty of. There is very little doubt that customers thought that Bullion Direct had $24M of their metal, and Bullion Direct did not actually have it, and that Charles was the CEO and the largest Bullion Direct shareholder.

One example of how he could not be guilty (per the law) is if a court treats these as pool accounts. If they had been advertised as pool accounts, many of Charles' problems would likely go away. Poof.

Another possibility is that someone else may have been much more involved in the decision-making.

Remember, too, that many facts aren't even know to Bullion Direct -- for example, Dan Bensimon stated under oath that before the 2012 change to the Terms of Service "the purchase order would have resulted in either delivery to the customer or storage of the product in a BullionDirect vault." We later found out that was completely untrue (in Dan's defense, he stated that he was basing the facts on his discussions with others).

Then there's the other issue: other people. You can't go saying that Charles should be in jail today without being able to say who else should be in jail, and why Charles should be. Was the crime selling goods that belong to another? Not buying it at all? Did others know that that is what was happening, and authorized it? What about condoning it: knowing it was going on, and being in a position to stop it but not doing so? If there are 2 guilty parties, you cannot reasonably expect one to be in jail while the other isn't -- simply because the mob hasn't identified both.

I'm not suggesting that Charles is innocent -- the absolute best-case scenario I can see is that he had no clue that what he was doing violated any laws, and he had great hopes of fixing things. I'm just trying to point out that this isn't like old cowboy movies of the early 1800s where if your poker partner cheats you can just whip out your gun in the saloon and take care of things directly. We are a more advanced society, and these things take time (more than it should, perhaps).

I don't make the laws; if you don't like 'em, talk to your local congressman.

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bull123

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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #94 
I just disagree with the "innocent until proven guilty" thing for folks who sent in money and never got product (as long as they are outside the 30 day time limit, which it seems most are).

my intention is not to inflame ...

sorry
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Cbrad01

Member
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Posts: 31
Reply with quote  #95 
Sad, it reads like these layers will pick the company dry until no money is left and then say sorry there is no hope.
The only things they are protecting is their wallets and CM
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harley_52

Senior Member
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Posts: 132
Reply with quote  #96 
It's a scam and a charade.

The entire system is rigged to enrich the crooks and lawyers at the expense of the "average guy" who's just trying to get along.  They all have their parts to play, but,  in the end, they simply split up our money and then move on to fleece the next flock of sheep.  Meanwhile, they all live like kings while we scrimp and save just trying to make it through life.
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bull123

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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #97 
I know some of you think i am just trying to ruffle feathers

but the truth is ...

imagine your worst case scenario for how this will end

zero dollars for license of Nucleo software ... CM walking free ... ONE cents on the dollar being returned

and yes ...

that is how this whole thing is very likely to turn out
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jkline

Member
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Posts: 93
Reply with quote  #98 
Bull,

Your worst case scenario is the one I am expecting. Except he'll get some plea deal which will amount to a slap on the wrist. Deal with it. Get therapy if you must. It is out of our hands.

Your missives are taking a decided whining tone which is not constructive. It was brought up before: you are sounding like Nemo's sockpuppet.

1
bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #99 
I know ... I'm just really pissed off ...

Did you notice on the front page, how they just cashed $29K in checks from clients that sent in money months ago?

probably from some very old people that have no idea any of this went down

picture mom and pop kettle ...

just sayin=(
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tboll

Senior Member
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Posts: 296
Reply with quote  #100 
So in response to creditors requesting conversion to Chapter 7 in an effort to salvage at least a couple of pennies on their dollars, it appears that Dan and Joe have responded with, "Sorry, no dice... we still have unfinished business to take care of."  It just seems to me that their main (and only?) interest is in keeping BD running rather than recovering and repaying creditors/customers.  I hope the judge views compensating the former BD customers as more important than just keeping this business afloat.
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Cbrad01

Member
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Posts: 31
Reply with quote  #101 
They must keep things going until every last penny is spent to pay their fees and any hope back tracking the money is gone.
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bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #102 
while the rest of us are working for a living, these bankruptcy attornies get paid by doing this ...

what are they doing?

why wasn't the money just divided up and sent back to clients?

why was $29K in checks allegedly cashed only a few weeks ago?

what happened to licensing the nucleo software to guys selling airplanes?

it's incredible really ...
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bdhasmysilver

Junior Member
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Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #103 
It's legalized theft.  There's not a dime's worth of difference between Dan, Joe and CM, other than CM didn't pass the bar.
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bull123

Senior Member
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Posts: 217
Reply with quote  #104 
What a peace loving post ... (sadly, aside from JG, there is nothing to be thankful for here)

The thing that gets me ... why isn't he in jail until this ENTIRE mess gets sorted out?

why should the pressure be on everyone but him to figure it all out?

there is this bizarre sense that the clients caused this ... and now that the bankruptcy attornies caused this ... and when he gets away with a slap on the wrist, that the authorities caused this.

OJ Simpson was never convicted in his wifes murder, but they still tossed him in jail until he could scam the jury into letting him go free ... they put the pressure on HIM to get out from under.

one was a physical murder ... the other is an alleged financial murder

since the #1 cause of suicide is depression related to financial issues ... what really is the difference?

by the way ... this is what (in my opinion) should have happened to the topic of our anger here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/29/us-stanford-fraud-idUSKCN0SN2NM20151029

[tounge2]
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JG

Administrator
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Posts: 981
Reply with quote  #105 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull123

by the way ... this is what (in my opinion) should have happened to the topic of our anger here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/29/us-stanford-fraud-idUSKCN0SN2NM20151029

[tounge2]


FWIW, he was arrested a bit over 4 months after charges were filed against him (per Wikipedia), around the same time his operation was ended.

Also worth mentioning is that at the Bullion Direct hearing on August 3, 2015 I believe it was the judge that said the Bullion Direct case was similar to Standford scheme.

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